Lately we've been hearing a lot of whining by the Catholic bishops about how they are being forced to go against their conscience and provide the employees of their non-religious ventures certain health benefits that they don't agree with. They are throwing a major hissy fit about this even though Obama agreed to modify the requirement so the the Catholic church wouldn't have to pay a penny to provide the coverage.
Listening to this one would think Catholics were the only people in America with a conscience. Well, I do too and my conscience is pissed that I, as an atheist, must use currency minted at my expense, and is the only cash legal tender in the U.S., that says quite clearly "In God We Trust." No, I don't trust in God, in fact I'm certain the God referred to on our currency does not even exist. So I demand that the U.S. Treasury mint special God-free currency for atheists, and not only that, I demand that all cash given to atheists for any reason be the special God-free currency.
--Trakker
I'm all for that - especially if Christians don't have to accept it.
You can limit your purchases to the Muslims, Hindus and Satinist businessmen.
Posted by: Ted McG | February 19, 2012 at 09:46 PM
Trakker, you keep missing the point of the whole thing.
Fore silly reason, you think its about birth control. Its about the State forcing others to go against their religous beliefs.
That's why we have the 1st Amendment to protect us from the State wishing to do otherwise.
Currency doesn't force you to go against your beliefs. And if seeing " IN GOD WE TRUST" upsets you that much, use a debit card.
Posted by: Dan D. Doty | February 20, 2012 at 02:52 PM
Yes, Dan, I DO get it. This isn't about birth control, it's about a scared desperate Republican party trying to gin up something, anything, to get their voters angry so they come out to vote.
But as usual, the facts show the Republicans and the Catholic Bishops and all the other groups who want to take America back to the 1870s, are WRONG. Why not just shut up and take it to court and let them overturn it? They won't because Obama's right and you all are wrong.
Posted by: Trakker | February 20, 2012 at 10:06 PM
Adele Stan on Going All-in Against Contraception
Posted by: horsec | February 21, 2012 at 09:10 AM
(I should read Delong more often)
And yet it's the Catholic Bishops that get all the attention from the supposedly liberal MSM.
Here's what gets me. The Catholic Church has taken a stand on a lot of issues beside abortion and contraception. They oppose the wars, they oppose the death penalty, they support extending unemployment benefits, extending health care to all, and they are very concerned about child poverty in this country. All those policies affect real people, people that have already been born. These also happen to be strong liberal issues.
So why hasn't the Catholic Church become just as outspoken on these issues as they have about abortion, which affects a zygote that isn't even aware it exists and which will only make child poverty worse. They are not a moral body, they are political. They want to keep women at home, pregnant and powerless to protect their exclusive all-male club. We've already seen pressure from women for priests to marry and for women to be included in the power structure.
Like the Republican party they support, they are in a battle for survival.
Posted by: Trakker | February 21, 2012 at 10:20 AM
Trakker, you really don't get it.
You keep screaming that someone wants to drag us back to 1870's without pointing out who said it.
And now you think its really okay for the State to override the 1st Amendment when it wants something. How can it be right the government ignor the Bill Of Rights. But then again, you never really liked the Bill Of Rights all that much any way.
Posted by: Dan D. Doty | February 21, 2012 at 02:30 PM
Anthony Trollope, in a letter to one of his publishers, 1870
From the Introduction by Michael Sadleir to "An Autobiography" by Anthony Trollope. The Introduction is in the paper publication (Oxford University Press), not the ebook.
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/5978 = An Autobiography by Anthony Trollope, various formats
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/5978.epub.noimages 235kB
Posted by: horsec | February 21, 2012 at 04:09 PM
Dan
When I was in the fourth grade I was introduced to elementary algebra. The teacher tried to teach us how to solve for X. I made a fool out of myself insisting that there is no such number as X. The teacher tried every which way to explain that X wasn't a number, it merely represented an unknown number.
Now I know how that poor teacher must have felt!
But he was paid to teach me and he did his best. I'm not paid to teach you. I'm sorry these concepts elude you, but I've tried in years past to explain where I'm coming from and it turned out to be a waste of my time.
So, let's put the onus on you. Please explain to me how President Obama's compromise allowing employees of hospitals and colleges run by religious entities to get birth control coverage through their health insurance at no cost to the religious institutions overrides the 1st amendment.
Posted by: Trakker | February 21, 2012 at 05:02 PM
Because its not about the money.
The Catholic Church is against birth control, many of the clerics and lay people believe that providing birth control in any form would go against their religious beliefs.
You want them to be forced by the State to go against their religious beliefs and priniples.
And BTW, its not a good idea to think you can override the liberties guaranteed by The Bill Of Rights. Because once you deny them their rights, it becomes real easy for someone else to do it to you.
Posted by: Dan D. Doty | February 21, 2012 at 06:56 PM
The Catholic Church has been exempted from the requirement that they provide health insurance that includes contraception coverage to their CHURCH employees.
Now if a church decides to engage in a NON-religious activity, like open a hospital, that competes with other hospitals and accepts federal money, they are no longer considered a house of worship, but a business activity and they must obey the same laws that other hospitals must obey.
What's really strange is that many, possibly most Catholic hospitals and universities already provide health insurance that includes contraception coverage. 28 states require it. So why, all of a sudden, are the Catholics upset? Because they are trying to defeat Obama and they are hoping to pretend President Obama has declared "war on religion." But it's not working.
So here's the bottom line. If the Catholics believe their 1st amendment rights have been trampled, take it to court. That's how the system is supposed to work.
Posted by: Trakker | February 22, 2012 at 12:39 AM
The big difference is deciding to provide this service of your own accord, and having the State force you to do it.
But the really upsetting part of this whole thing was when you went along with Charles Pierce; throwing Bishops into jail, attacking the Catholic church, stompimg all over peoples civil liberties and that cute little statement of your's about overriding the 1st Amendment.
Has President Obama declared war on religion? Can't really say at this point, but it does seem like you did some time ago.
Posted by: Dan D. Doty | February 22, 2012 at 03:29 AM
Dan. So in your world the state can't make you or anyone do anything you don't want to do?
I said, if the Catholic church really believes their rights have been trampled on, take it to court. That's how America works. I'm pretty sure they will lose, and I'm pretty sure the Bishops believe they will lose too. That's why they are screaming so loud, trying to intimidate the White House into caving (which they usually do).
Of course I've declared war on religion. I'm an atheist! I believe people have the right to believe in a religion, I believe they have the right to build houses of worship and put their mangers on church property or their own property, to wear crosses around their neck, and even wish me Merry Christmas. The government should not interfere with any of that, but in return religions should not get special treatment from my government which is supposed to protect me from religious nuttery.
Charles Pierce is a Catholic. If he's disgusted with his church (as he should be) that's fine with me.
Dan, we live on different planets. Accept it and leave. We agree on very little and never will.
Posted by: Trakker | February 22, 2012 at 10:50 AM
A bit news.
U.S. District Court Judge Ronald Leighton rule today that pharmacists do not have dispense PLAN B if doing so would goes against their religious beliefs.
Pesty little thing, that 1st Amendment, ain't it.
And BTW, there is nothing in the Constitution that says the government must protect from " religious nuttery " unless they are commiting crimes, or trying to over throw the government through violent actions.
You have put up with those assholes just like all nutters in the world.
And we are on the same planet ... maybe just need to get out more.
Posted by: Dan D. Doty | February 23, 2012 at 02:04 AM
U.S. District Court Judge Ronald Leighton rule today that pharmacists do not have dispense PLAN B if doing so would goes against their religious beliefs.
Glad to hear it. So I assume now atheist firefighters don't have to put out fires in churches, and Jewish waiters can refuse to to serve food with pork? The judge is nuts, he's opening a can of worms of immense proportions.
And BTW, there is nothing in the Constitution that says the government must protect from " religious nuttery " unless they are commiting crimes, or trying to over throw the government through violent actions.
You're wrong. Religious nuts want public schools to require students to say prayers. They want the Christian 10 Commandments in schools and courthouses. Christians want creationism taught in schools. This is religious nuttery and the courts have stopped it. The government, through the courts, protect me from all you Christians trying to force your nutty beliefs on the rest of us. And the courts protect you from any nutty atheists who want to shut down your churches or prevent you from putting religious bumper stickers on your cars.
You live on a different planet, where Christians get to force your beliefs on everyone else and call it your first amendment right.
Posted by: Trakker | February 23, 2012 at 12:12 PM